Them Sciences and Islam

by von Aurum

 Many of us have heard narratives about the Muslim world being behind in terms of economy and power because of the decline of Sciences in the Muslim world. Instead of giving a historical analysis of what had happened, I would like to share a couple of true stories and let the reader draw the conclusions about what is happening. I do not like to make generalizations based on a few examples but I recogonize that in many cases such examples can tell us something about ourselves.
 

It’s simple Brother: So there I was in the library one day when I ran into a brother. I had “Islam and Science” by Pervez Hoodbhoy in my hand. After the mandatory salutations, the brother asked what I was reading so I replied, “I am reading this book by a Pakistani physicist, he is even a visiting professor at MIT. Although I do not agree with many of the things that he says but he tries to outline why did the study of Science decline in the Islamic World.” Before I could add anything to my story the brother interrupted me, “Its simple brother. You do not need a professor to tell you that. The reason that the Muslims are behind because we should not be interested in this world. We should be more interested in the next world. Science and those things are not of much importance anyway.” And that was the end of the conversation as I continued my errands for the day but may be he had given an answer to this question without really giving one.
 

Stuck on a Stationary Earth: There is really strange debate going on in a forum regarding whether the Earth was stationary or not and the person who was advocating that it was stationary stated that he had “proofs” from the Quran and sunnah that it was stationary. When I read his so-called proofs I realized that they were not really “proofs” but he was just trying to his own interpretation of the verses into the text. Later when I met another brother, who was studying computer science at a reputable university in the US, I stated the absurdity of this position. Amazingly the brother became defensive, saying that since it is in one of the two main sources the Earth must be stationary. So I said, “I have read the verses myself. They do not say that.” “No. If it says that then it must be true.” “But it does not say it.” “No the Earth must be stationary.” “It does NOT say that in the Quran. Muslims scientists in the past affirmed that the Earth is rotating. Why are you trying to ascribe something to the Quran which it does not say?” “Hmmm …. you might be right. So the Earth is rotating.” Later I asked myself, “Why are we so earger to listen to people who do not even have credentials about what the two main sopurces of Islam say without cross checking what they are saying and then end up defending what is not even part of Islam?”
 

von Aurum blogs at http://posthuman.wordpress.com/ 

21 Responses to “Them Sciences and Islam” »»

  1. Comment by Manish Bansal | 06/17/06 at 5:32 am

    Remember how Christianity used to be in middle ages? How Galileo was tried for saying that Earth was not the center of the solar system? How church used to sell letter of pardon? Do you think today Islam is where Christianity was in the middle ages? Since these two religions came about 500 years apart, that they still have that distance?

  2. sid
    Comment by sid | 06/17/06 at 6:10 am

    I liked your article and I agree with your views. The problem is that Muslims are not using their thinking / intellectual faculties but rely on not so well educated ulemas who state things without a dot of proof. The first thing Muslims must realize is that when Islam is the true religion, it must be wholly scientific. I was talking about the very same thing (what your article contains) a few days earlier to my mum. Its sad that so many Muslims listen to religious scholars and not the actual fact. I don’t understand how we can remedy this problem. There aren’t many Muslim scientists in my part of the world because neither does my country possess adequate research facilites (most universities do not usually conduct research), nor do Muslims have adequate funding to study abroad/home.
    The most important thing is to educate women because when women of the family are educated, they naturally influence the children (especially among Muslims in developing countries).
    There is also a severe lack of the importance of education among the Muslim population. We need to bring about a change among Muslim perception of furthering their knowledge in all realms of science because after all, being a Muslim, I can say that God’s the supreme scientist. So discovering science is paying tribute to aLLAH’S beauty and his excellent creations.

    I was also very shocked to read how one person said that this world isn’t important but the next. If it weren’t for science, I am sure that person would not be enjoying the benefits of the modern world (even stuff like wearing glasses). The actions of this world reflect upon the next world. And I can safely say that Allah would reward the people who have spend their lives researching about how his creations work, searching for cures to diseaes, how to save people who are in disaster prone areas, .. than this person who has done nothing beneficial but perform the rituals of Islam and while away his time in useless pursuit of convincing other Muslims that his view is the right one.
    I do not say that following Islam is less important. Infact it is tantamount to our achieving success in science. I feel that if the Muslim scientists of old weren’t proper Muslims, they would not have been able to discover so many things.

    I suggest that lay men leave discovering scientific proofs in the Quran to scholars who study the Quran in depth, because, its rightly said that half knowledge is a dangerous thing, and whoever preaches nonsense should , (pardon me), be declared an outcast from Islam so as to safeguard our religion.
    Oh yeah, science should be made a compulsory subject to all of the world’s people.

  3. Comment by matoko-chan | 06/17/06 at 7:28 am

    vonarum, this a very interesting discussion. i have been surveying al-Jazeerha.net for science articles for some time, and there is a distinct “nat’l enquirer” treatment of science, like articles about aliens predicting tsunamis–never anything about real substantive research and discovery. it is sort of science-lite.

    i think the average standard of living in many countries contributes to brain drain, where prospective scientists go elsewhere, it is hard to be interested in science if you cannot get enough to eat, for example.
    a scientist class is a luxury for many countries (except nuke science, which is supported by totalitarian governments).
    good article from razib, Brain drain–the size of the cup matters

    Is it possible in MENA countries with fairly decent standards of living, islam itself contributes to brain drain?

    i think this is important because i don’t really believe that democracy can spread successfully with supporting infrastructure like, free trade, open economic policy, science and education, open culture of music and art and dance….when a country loses it’s intellectual capital, or most of it, that makes lifting the standard of living so much harder.

  4. Comment by Buzzkill | 06/17/06 at 8:49 am

    Islam has and will continued to be blamed for everything! Personally, I blame Jesus Christ for Neocon aggression and hegemony. I mean, it couldn’t be more clear that the Gospels are a blue print for what the United STates is trying to achieve in the MIddle East!
    Yada yada yada,….

    No one would ever take such a position seriously. Why does Islam have to endure this?

    Young men in the Muslim countries are trying to hold on to some prestige. (This prestige could come from anywhere…human beings all want essentially the same things). Currently, the only available access to advanced *something* is Islam.

    This Islamic “chauvinism,” as Putti terms it, is a problem for the middle east because the role it plays serves to undermine it.

  5. Comment by Buzzkill | 06/17/06 at 8:52 am

    Good topic and cleverly presented, Willow. Thanks.

  6. Comment by howard_coward | 06/17/06 at 9:43 am

    So I have a question. Suppose that somewhere in the Quran it states as a fact that the earth does not rotate. For example the individuals mentioned above are correct in their attributions as to the correct interpretation of what they read. What then? As a muslim, is the earth now stationary?

  7. Comment by aaakn | 06/17/06 at 11:13 am

    dr. pervez hoodbhoy is a renowned scientist and at his nerves ends with the illiterate nation he has been assigned to on the moving/rotating/spinning/inmotion earth of ours!!!

  8. Comment by matoko-chan | 06/17/06 at 3:40 pm

    Islam has and will continued to be blamed for everything! Personally, I blame Jesus Christ for Neocon aggression and hegemony. I mean, it couldn’t be more clear that the Gospels are a blue print for what the United STates is trying to achieve in the MIddle East!

    i don’t play that. i’ve been labelled as an xianphobe myself, for my defense of Islam.
    i am not blaming Islam for everything.
    juss asking if fundamentalist ideology can be contributing to that lack of a scientist class in MENA.

    in this country bio-luddites (like Fukayama, vonarum), and the RTL have repressed scientific study in ESCR and genetic engineering.
    i vehemently oppose ANY religion meddling with scientific progress.

  9. Comment by thabet | 06/17/06 at 3:56 pm

    What was your acquaintance doing in the library?

  10. Comment by thabet | 06/17/06 at 4:11 pm

    “How Galileo was tried for saying that Earth was not the center of the solar system?”

    And how was Galileo “tried for saying that Earth was not the center of the solar system”? He had his supporters in the Church as well as his detractors. In fact, his book was even published under license from the Inquisition.

    “If it weren’t for science, I am sure that person would not be enjoying the benefits of the modern world (even stuff like wearing glasses).”

    A lot of the “major benefits” of the “modern world” were advanced by engineers, who are *not* scientists.

  11. Comment by matoko-chan | 06/17/06 at 4:21 pm

    thabet, galileo was forced to recant his theory of heliocentrism on pain of death for heresy.
    reportedly, as he was leaving, he whispered, …”and still It moves…”.
    MUCH, much later, his theories were published.
    never doubt, the authorities in the church would have burned him just as surely as they burnt the albigensians.

  12. Comment by Rashad The “R” | 06/18/06 at 5:12 am

    I agree that this trend is very frustrating. I think that Brother Muqtedar Khan’s articles on this matter are very on point. There are so many reasons for our global stagnation it’s mind boggling. A lot of times I really believe it’s fear. Some have fooled themselves through joining different movements and aligning themselves behind their scholars by thinking that these movements and their leaders are knowledgable about virtually any and all things. So when they actually encounter institutions that actually can explain economics or science or whatever, they panic as if their iman is at stake. Plus, it’s an easy cop-out to not have to study things that don’t fit into their narrow outlook. Fear and laziness.

  13. sid
    Comment by sid | 06/18/06 at 5:27 am

    > — Thabet

    Ah but you see, advances in engineering are for human needs. And if the causes of weak eyesight weren’t discovered, I believe engineers would have not advanced in the field of ‘making glasses’. Infact the very first microscope was invented by a biologist, who was not an engineer, but just a draper interested in microbes. If I were to take your stand that engineers merit the advancement of the modern world, then I would safely say that the spur/ inspiration/impetus to this advancement were scientists. Scientists need not necessarily mean biologists.

  14. Comment by Willow | 06/18/06 at 10:06 am

    Thanks, but I just posted the article at the request of our friend Eteraz; while I feel it contains certain immediate truths, I’m not sure the piece presents the philosophies it describes entirely contextually. I think it’s important to remember that the majority of Muslims live in developing (or arrested development) countries, so “waiting/living for the next life” might not be quite as dire or alarming an idea as we who live comfortably in the first and second worlds make it out to be. If I was in a terminally insecure situation, unable to provide adequately for my family, and one bad illness away from the abyss, I’d live for the next life too. The problem arises when this phrase comes from the mouths of people responsible for *providing* for these embattled segments of the umma–on their tongues, it sounds awfully like an excuse.

  15. Comment by Marqas | 06/18/06 at 11:13 am

    akhi - didn’t your mother tell you not to talk to strange muslims in the library!! ha!…, man-o-man… as bob dylan said, “…the times they [ain’t] a’ changin’…”

    good stuff…

  16. Comment by vonaurum | 06/19/06 at 8:44 am

    sid: You have presented a good summary of many of the problems that we face.
    Willow: I agree with the point that you made, you have put it in context.
    Thabet: Incidently the person that I met in the library was studying Mechanical Engineering at my university! It makes the situation doubly ironic.
    Marqas: I must have missed that part. lol

  17. Comment by Buzz kill | 06/19/06 at 8:59 am

    “i don’t play that. i’ve been labelled as an xianphobe myself, for my defense of Islam.
    i am not blaming Islam for everything.
    juss asking if fundamentalist ideology can be contributing to that lack of a scientist class in MENA.”

    matoko-chan

    Stupidity and repression cause stupidity and repression.
    Islam is not accountable.

    Some people call it Islamic fundamentalism. This suggests Islam is fundamentally accountable.

    Islam and stupidity are not directly associated. Stupid people and stupidity are.
    If some goon uses the name “Islam” for his or her moronic and repressive ideas, this in no way calls Islam into question. This should be abundantly clear.

  18. Comment by thabet | 06/19/06 at 9:55 am

    “…was studying Mechanical Engineering…”

    I apologise for my Mechanical Engineering brother. We’re not all stupid. I hope.

  19. Comment by thabet | 06/19/06 at 10:06 am

    Makoto-chan:
    “thabet, galileo was forced to recant his theory of heliocentrism on pain of death for heresy.”
    Doesn’t dismiss any of my points. I never said he wasn’t forced to recant. That episode is not as straightforward as some people like to suggest, since, as I have said, he had his supporters and as well as his opponents.

    Sid:
    “Infact the very first microscope was invented by a biologist”
    I am happy to be corrected, but the first microscope is credited to a Dutch spectacle-maker.

    “If I were to take your stand that engineers merit the advancement of the modern world”
    See a history of industrialisation and consumerism. Name me something on your desk that does not involve an engineering process. The “modern world” was no created in a laboratory by men in white coats.

    “…then I would safely say that the spur/ inspiration/impetus to this advancement were scientists.”
    I didn’t deny the importance of scientists in the “modern world”. They’re very important. I know from personal experience.

  20. sid
    Comment by sid | 06/19/06 at 11:11 pm

    Thabet
    “I am happy to be corrected, but the first microscope is credited to a Dutch spectacle-maker”.. exactly who i was talking about, except that he was a draper. and later a spectacle maker.

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