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Apartheid Verified, Former Israeli Cabinet Minister


By Ali Eteraz
Posted on Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 06:40:38 AM EST
Tags: israel, apartheid (all tags)

On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away.
"Why?" I asked the soldier.

"It's an order. This is a Jews-only road," he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it.

His answer was nothing short of amazing. "It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here, and let some anti-Semitic reporter or journalist take a photo, so he then can show the world that apartheid exists here?"
Read the whole thing.

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Tags: israel, apartheid (all tags)
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blame vs responsibility(none / 0) (#1)
by Jordan on Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 10:57:02 AM EST

I am against the settlements but a couple things...

1. Obviously calling Israel an apartheid is ridiculous. Israel has over a million Muslims with more rights and freedoms than they will ever get in the Arab world.

2. Yes, the settlements in Palestine were a horrible idea. They are unfair. But lets be very clear, while it is expected Israel to be home to a million Muslims, the idea of Palestine being home to Jews is an international outrage.

3. If the Arab world succeeded in any of its invasions where the stated goal was to "drive the Jews into the sea", would we be having this conversation? Is this about human rights or sour grapes?

3. The Jewish-Only roads are not created because of racism, they are created out of security. Compare this to the no-Jews-at-all policies in Saudi Arabia, the no-Jew-owns-land in Jordan, and the Jews-are-corrupt-scum in Arab textbooks.  Whats the Islamic world's excuse?

Sorry, I just get upset when the Islamic world, who will not even allow a Christian to carry a bible in Saudi Arabia or exist in Mecca, to point at Israel and scream out "apartheid".

Yes, Israel is FAR from perfect. Some of their policies are a shandra. But isn't it time for the Islamic world to clean up its own act before they villafy a tiny nation that at least tries to impliment human rights?

It demonstrates a culture of blame rather than a culture of responsibility.



i disagree(none / 0) (#2)
by Ali Eteraz on Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 11:06:12 AM EST
But isn't it time for the Islamic world to clean up its own act before they villafy a tiny nation that at least tries to impliment human rights?

The problem that people have, Jordan, is that it is acceptable to call Muslim nations where religious or ethnic minorities are second class citizens by the name apartheid state, or totalitarian state, or theocratic state, or fundamentalist state. In fact, you are more than welcome to refer to any place like Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi, by those titles. Not only are you welcome to do it, but numerous international monitoring programs such as freedom house and Amnesty do so regularly. However, when Israel exhibits the same problems -- as you readily acknowledge in your comment, the term apartheid, or totalitarian, or theocratic, or fundamentalist is not permissible.

I think you should not make this an issue of Israel/Others, but take it back to the Humanism post. Not only that, but your entire critique is moot on this website, because the post prior to this one was by Willow, debunking Suicide Bombing. As such, even under your standard -- that everyone attack "their" problems before criticizing Israel (a short-sighted and anti-humanist standard if there ever was one), you are wrong.



[ Parent ]
No difference between Israel and Saudi Arabia?(none / 0) (#3)
by Leauki on Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 11:29:09 AM EST
<div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">"The problem that people have, Jordan, is that it is acceptable to call Muslim nations where religious or ethnic minorities are second class citizens by the name apartheid state, or totalitarian state, or theocratic state, or fundamentalist state."</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">Really? When will the UN do that?</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">"In fact, you are more than welcome to refer to any place like Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi, by those titles. Not only are you welcome to do it, but numerous international monitoring programs such as freedom house and Amnesty do so regularly."</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">I think you are not realising an important difference here.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">"However, when Israel exhibits the same problems -- as you readily acknowledge in your comment, the term apartheid, or totalitarian, or theocratic, or fundamentalist is not permissible."</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">And that's it. Israel does NOT exhibit "the same problems", not by far. The term apartheid is not permissible because it's not true, and it has nothing to do with Israel or Jews. Israel just happens not to have such laws as those that make Saudi Arabia and Iran racist and totalitarian; and that's the difference.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">It's the old "never say a bad thing about the Jews" problem. Most people nowadays critizise that principle; but for some reason they seem to believe that just because it should be allowed and acceptable to say bad things about Jews and Israel it means that it must be done; and that anything bad can be said about them, no matter whether it's true.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">I'll tell you something. Saying that Jews want to take over the world is not wrong because saying bad things about the Jews is wrong but because the statement is not true. And the same applies to most other currently accepted sayings about Jews or Israel.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">Why can people not simply accept that the question of what to say has nothing to do with whether it is allowed to say it about Jews but simply with whether the statement is true or not.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">And I fear that one report of a soldier claiming that a street is "only for Jews" does not constitute a proof of a racist country, only perhaps a racist or ignorant soldier. And I doubt that you would even look at the evidence if it wasn't about Israel.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">Tell me a country that you think is not an apartheid system and I am sure you can also find an example of something racist that happened there. The question is whether it is law or not. And in Israel, it is not law.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">If you want to know the difference between Israel and those countries, try walking through a city in the country and make yourself known as a member of the allegedly oppressed group.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">Just go to Mecca as a Jew or to Jerusalem as a Muslim. Find out for yourself what racism is and what tolerance is. You might be surprised.</span></div><div><span style="-khtml-border-horizontal-spacing: 7px; -khtml-border-vertical-spacing: 7px; font-family: Trebuchet MS; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19px" class="Apple-style-span">
</span></div><div>
</div>

[ Parent ]


Criticism for some indeed(none / 0) (#5)
by Jordan on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 12:25:50 AM EST

But is that true eteraz?

Is Israel dedicated to pointing out the failures of Sudan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia daily? Do they dedicate half their high school curriculum training their students how evil the Arab world is to their own citizens?

How many official UN Human Rights condemnations have there been against any of the countries you mentioned? More than zero? Now how many condemnations against Israel, in the last few years alone. Of course, its rhetorical. The UN has ONLY condemned Israel and Israel alone on eight separate occasions. Based on your moral equivalence argument, is that not odd?

There must be some sense of proportionality. There must be some understanding that after kicking out a million Jews from the Arab/Islamic world, calling Israel an apartheid because it does not incorporate millions of hostile refugees from wars it did not start demonstrates that the "golden rule" is not understood in Islam.

Shouldn't the fact that Israel's Arab citizens seem to be the only Muslims in the middle-east who are not seeking American/European citizenship show Israel's commitment to at least trying to be a good country?

Shouldn't the fact that Bahai could worship freely ONLY in Israel help dispel the myth of racism?

From my perspective, the obsession over Israel (and obsession is the only valid word to describe it) is reflective of a culture that will always be stuck in reverse.   

Sorry I got so defensive, but it seems to me that the world has perfected the art of ignoring the 99% in favor of the sexy villains. I respect your blog for not following the trend but when Israel, which I sincerely believe has tried hard to create peace and prosperity, is compared to a racist apartheid, I will of course speak up.

The fact that Jews, including myself, are classic self-hating and the Arab/Islamic mentality does not seem to share the quality of self-blame doesn't help. If the Arab/Islamic would actually criticized their own societies as you say, perhaps Israel would be more open to criticism from its neighbors.

Fortunately, Israeli Jews are more than happy to march against their own country in support of Arabs (as they should). Let me know when the Arab world ever returns the favor.



[ Parent ]






Apartheid in the OT(none / 0) (#4)
by Wesley on Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 04:33:34 PM EST
The accusation of apartheid leveled at Israel has less to do with the rights of those minorities living in Israel and more to do with the ongoing illegal occupation of Palestine. With regards to this Israel's crimes pretty much outstrip anything else in the ME.

occupation vs gang rape(none / 0) (#6)
by Jordan on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 02:10:29 AM EST

Really? Occupying the West Bank is worse than gang-raping thousands of little girls in Sudan? Worse than stoning women to death? Worse than killing hundreds of thousands because they belong to the wrong branch of Islam?

This is exactly what I am talking about.

Complete indefference to the horrors from within in order to focus unreasonable hatred against the Jews.

Eteraz, you have to admit that Wesley makes my point very clearly. (read above on my second reply)

 



[ Parent ]
Me again(none / 0) (#7)
by Wesley on Mon Jan 29, 2007 at 02:40:49 AM EST

I should have clarified my statement. It pertains not to the crimes of non-state actors but those commited states. In this regard it is hard for me to think of any particular state amongst those typically attacked by Israeli apologists (KSA, Iran) that have commited such intense and persistant crimes. I would also like to remind you that this occupation is currently four decades long now.

You will have to excuse me for letting Sudan slip my mind, I think of Sudan as being an African state and not a part of the Middle East. Also it might be resonable for you not to refer to the civil war in Iraq by essentialising it as confessional violence that is disconnected from the invasion and occupation.

Finally summing me up as a some type of rabid Jew hater is hilarious, if this was the case why would I be engaged in interfaith dialogues with members of my local Jewish community? And I don't regardless of what you think share any shred of guilt for the crimes of people I only share a vague religious connection to. Descending to the level at which you have to paint me as an anti-semite and as an apologist for 'genocide' should be above level of this disucssion.

PS you might want to investigate comments by certain prominent anti-apartheid activists regarding Israel's policies.



[ Parent ]
Hmmm... who can be worse than Israel(none / 0) (#8)
by Jordan on Mon Jan 29, 2007 at 11:47:01 PM EST

Hmm... what could possibly be worse than the evil Israeli apartheid other than Sudan sponsering Janjaweeds rape-gang campaign?

1. Saudi Arabia: domestic slavery, female apartheid, stoning to death, denial of any religious rights other than Sunnis

2. Iran: Killing 100,000 political activists since revolution, using own children with plastic keys to clear mind fields, stoning women, killing gays

Thats just two I countries. Should I also include Egypt's treatment of Copts, Syrias treatment of Kurds, Iraq's treatments of Shias and on and on?

No Jews to blame = No one cares

And how was the occupation of Gaza/West Bank by Egypt and Jordan? How many doctors per capita? How much electricity? How many universities?

Since 1948, out of the 10,000,000 Muslim/Arab war related deaths that have taken place, 99.4% have NOTHING to do with the Jews or Israel in any way. Most were Muslim on Muslim violence. Then the Soviets, then the French, then America, and coming in last place: Israel.

But yeah, other than that tiny fact Israel is worst... evil bastards.



[ Parent ]









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